Timeline for Why don't the UK and EU agree to fish only in their territorial waters?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
20 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Dec 18, 2020 at 4:27 | comment | added | JonathanReez | @DonFusili would it be cheaper to just pay them an allowance for compensation and focus efforts on developing land-based fish farms as well as cell-grown fish meat? Humans would be fine even if we stopped fishing altogether tomorrow. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 23:19 | comment | added | user | This is not true. Most of the best fishing grounds are outside the UK's waters. However some specific animals are in the UK areas. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 21:25 | comment | added | Vladimir F Героям слава | @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica I have obviously considered that but still.. But it looks better on a more detailed map, there it is indeed in the middle irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/… | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 21:02 | comment | added | Italian Philosopher | @VladimirF it looks that way, but you need to consider that a big chunk of the UK zone between Ireland and the UK is because Northern Ireland is part of the UK. If it wasn't the map would look different. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 15:10 | comment | added | Vladimir F Героям слава | Especially the situation of Ireland is crazy. I wonder how the lines separating Irish and UK EEZs were determined. They seem extrememly unfair. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 13:23 | comment | added | Jontia | @DonFusili 'The "obvious solution" as given by an outsider only shows ignorance of these facts.' is not entirely fair. As this "obvious solution" has been provided by most of the UK Brexiteer army as well. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 12:59 | comment | added | Graham | @Allure Simple numbers. How much territorial water you have depends on how much coastline you have. The best fishing area is the North Sea, and since the North Sea borders the UK for its entire length, the UK has roughly half of it as territorial waters. The rest of it is divided between the other nations bordering the sea, and hence shared by EU nations. If half the North Sea is no longer accessible by EU fishermen, half their catch is gone. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 11:05 | comment | added | DonFusili | @Jontia Profit margins are almost irrelevant, most of European natural fishing is strategic. If all of the North Sea fishermen suddenly stopped fishing by themselves, the EU would most likely just lower quotas, not transfer them to other regions. Throwing large communities in three (four, if you count Denmark) countries in disarray because it makes the excel sheet fit is an actual problem. Mainly because >50 year old people that didn't finish high school and haven't done anything else in their lives than fish care surprisingly little about things like EU-UK dispute arbitration. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 10:57 | comment | added | Jontia | From the last comment, I assume we're basically back to profit margins. Better and easier fish access in UK waters means that 700,000 tonnes brings in a higher margin than the remaining 5.3 million tonnes from EU waters. Which is a good point, but not backed by any data/links in the answer. Which is what my original comment was about. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 10:42 | comment | added | user16741 | @Jontia and given the figures I note, yes the EU catches more fish outside of the UKs waters, but not necessarily as easily... and thats the point. The UKs waters are closer and have better yield - most if the EUs EEZ is low yield or rubbish coastal waters that arent good for deep sea fishing. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 10:40 | comment | added | user16741 | @Jontia my earlier comment was basically limited to the waters the EU are interested in, that 300,000 sq mile bit around the UK itself. Take a look at it on a map, its huge swathes of the North Sea and Atlantic. The EU arent interested in the UKs waters in the Indian Ocean, South Atlantic etc - they want the waters that French, German, Danish etc boats can fish on a daily or weekly basis. So Im happy gelling my comments. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 10:37 | comment | added | DonFusili | @Jontia Except that the decisions aren't being made about the EU as a whole, but as the superset of a number of localized fishing-groups. North Sea fishermen cannot just hop over to the Mediterranian or East Sea. It's always easy to just make the numbers match if you forget that there are actual people trying to feed families impacted by the decisions. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 10:32 | comment | added | Jontia | "The UK fleet doesn't catch an additional 750,000, that's included in the total" I understand that and agree. But ultimately even with a naïve approach of "fish in your own pond" the EU fleets would be able to catch more fish by giving up UK access. British boats would lose around 50,000 tonnes of fish based on these numbers. And the EU being interested in the UK's costal waters doesn't match with the earlier comment you posted about the UK's EEZ being sea or ocean. Though these are obviously non-technical terms so where the lines are is a big ? | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 10:21 | comment | added | user16741 | @Jontia you are right, the EU lands about 6million tonnes of fish in total, from about 25 million sq miles of EEZ - 700,000 of that is from UK waters, so more than 10%. The UK EEZ the EU is interested in is mainly that around the actual UK, which is only 300,000 sq miles. So more than 10% of the EU take comes from just over 1% of the EUs current waters... Thats why this is highly contested. The UK fleet doesnt catch an additional 750,000, thats included in the total - some of that is also included in the 700,000 total from UK waters, the rest from other EU waters. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 10:10 | comment | added | DonFusili | Historical access is also a point of contention: these high yield fishing fields have been fished by fishermen in what is now France, Belgium and The Netherlands for longer than either of the 4 involved countries exist in its current form. Historic appointments of exclusivity regarding these waters has always come with multi-way compromises. The "obvious solution" as given by an outsider only shows ignorance of these facts. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 9:54 | comment | added | Jontia | The link shows the location of the UK EEZ, but doesn't back up the claim that this is all the "decent" fishing grounds. WIkipedia puts catches in UK waters at 700,000 tonnes of 6million total catches. And the UK fleet total catch at 750,000 tonnes. While weight and value aren't the same, I'd still need something to back up the "most of the decent fishing ground" claim given those numbers do not support such an assertion. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 7:08 | comment | added | zibadawa timmy | @Allure I would expect it also depends in part on how the UK is one of the most distinctive locations on the globe as regards tides and currents. The Atlantic gulf stream currents basically drive straight up to Britain/Ireland and then splits around and envelopes it. This greatly assists the transportation of life-sustaining nutrients and plankton. Ocean life relies heavily on currents, and regions of the ocean with essentially no currents are nutrient poor and have little to no life. Those idyllic crystal clear blue Caribbean waters? The result of no nutrients, no life. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 5:50 | comment | added | user16741 | @Allure Im not a wildlife expert, so no idea. But most of the EUs territorial waters are coastal, while a huge chunk of the UKs is sea or ocean based because of its position and outlying islands, and that probably has a lot to do with it. | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 5:41 | comment | added | Allure | Any idea why there's more fish in the UK's EEU? | |
| Dec 17, 2020 at 4:35 | history | answered | user16741 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |