Timeline for Is alternative notion of "state" emerging (or already exists) in the Middle East?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
18 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Dec 13, 2023 at 18:52 | comment | added | C.F.G | @TedWrigley: He implicitly say that "we (Qatar, Saudi Arabia, US, UAE, etc.) supported same group. (IS)." I don't know why you believe that US foreign policy is Machiavellian and amoral, you still say that the US coalition stopped ISIS! | |
| Dec 13, 2023 at 16:10 | comment | added | Ted Wrigley | @C.F.G: I really don't know what point you're trying to make, aside from noting that US foreign policy is Machiavellian and amoral. And its worth noting that this interview is from mid-2017, which was Trump-era, and particularly demented foreign-policy-wise… | |
| Dec 12, 2023 at 22:27 | comment | added | Ted Wrigley | @C.F.G: That video link isn't playing for some reason. Do you have another? | |
| Dec 12, 2023 at 8:01 | comment | added | C.F.G | @TedWrigley: Your arguments/thoughts all are correct but you ignore small important issues. Have you seen Charlie Rose's interview about this? | |
| Dec 12, 2023 at 7:40 | comment | added | Ted Wrigley | @C.F.G: If you're trying to convince me that US foreign policy is short-sighted, selfish, and manipulative, don't bother. I already know that. But let's not be simplistic. The US had ample opportunity to promote regime change during the Arab Spring (including deposing Assad) years before the IS reared its head. In fact, I could argue that the only reason IS rose is because Obama backed away from the Arab insurgencies after Gaddafi fell, and IS stepped into the power vacuum. Being blindly cynical is just as bad as being naïve, if you follow me… | |
| Dec 12, 2023 at 7:22 | comment | added | Ted Wrigley | @RogerV.: Ok, I totally screwed that up. Apologies. 😄 I need more presence when I answer comment, obviously. Thanks for correcting me. | |
| Dec 12, 2023 at 6:46 | comment | added | Wag the mainstream media dog | @C.F.G indeed, after the Black September that I mentioned above, the Palestinian refugees moved from Jordan to Lebanon. But there's still significant Palestinian population indigenous to Jordan, which is ruled by a Hashemite King - representing another ethnic group. | |
| Dec 12, 2023 at 6:45 | comment | added | C.F.G | @TedWrigley: What West propaganda wants you to believe is exactly what you said. Its cover is almost reasonable. But this is not the truth. You have to think about why US (as Clinton said) and its allies brought up ISIS. One of the reasons was the destruction of Assad. Do you know why? Because the EU and the US (in 2000) planned to transfer Qatar's gas to the EU through a pipeline, and one of the places that the pipeline would pass through was Syria, and Assad was strongly disagree. So now you see why US officials kept repeating "Assad must go"? | |
| Dec 12, 2023 at 6:41 | comment | added | C.F.G | @RogerV. You are talking about Palestinians refugees or lands? Anyway, read this Wiki article about Lebenon | |
| Dec 12, 2023 at 6:22 | comment | added | Wag the mainstream media dog | Hezbollah is in Lebanon, which has no border with Jordan. They are not Palestinians btw. On the other hand, Jordan had a significant Palestinian population, and renounced its claims to the WB to avoid having Palestinian majority. Indeed, Palestinians already tried to overthrow the king in the events known as Black September. Palestinians in WB enjoy significant autonomy - controlling part of the territory, own police force, etc. - as per Oslo accords. Still, there are some good general points in your answer. Thanks. | |
| Dec 11, 2023 at 21:29 | comment | added | Ted Wrigley | @C.F.G: Well, you'll have to tell me how this history is 'wrong'. The US Coalition against IS — with Turkey, England, Germany, France, etc. — certainly existed. Iran also opposed IS, but through its support of Assad, not as part of the US coalition. Iran and the US have their own long-standing antagonisms, leading to the US assassination of Soleimani for rationales entirely unrelated to the issue of IS. Call it amoral realpolitik and I'll happily agree, but it isn't fiction. | |
| Dec 11, 2023 at 20:17 | comment | added | C.F.G | @TedWrigley: Your comment is correct, but I mean why do you read/tell history wrongly? because of influence of propaganda? | |
| Dec 11, 2023 at 20:10 | comment | added | Ted Wrigley | @C.F.G: First, don't assume I generically approve of US international actions. The US has its own jaded agenda, and sometimes the enemy of its enemy is also its enemy. Understanding it doesn't imply liking it. From the US perspective both IS and Iran were stalking horses for domestic political gambits, and people rarely care whether stalking horses are philosophically consistent. | |
| Dec 11, 2023 at 19:55 | comment | added | Ted Wrigley | @RogerV.: The West Bank is occupied territory, and thus clearly not a state in any sense. Jordan is an established state, Palestinians are a sateless people residing with in it. I suppose we could argue that Hezbollah has sufficient political power in Jordan that it's become a mixed Palestinian/Jordanian state; that's an interesting (if problematic) line of thought. But in any case, neither of those poses a challenge to the concept of 'state' per se; just an assertion that Israel is an illegitimate state. | |
| Dec 11, 2023 at 19:46 | comment | added | Ted Wrigley | @C.F.G: The US-led coalition fighting directly agains IS, Russia supporting Assad… I exclude Turkey and other mid-East states since IS presented a direct threat to their own sovereignty, but I have doubts whether those states by themselves could have done more than contain IS from expanding it's territory. | |
| Dec 11, 2023 at 19:16 | comment | added | Wag the mainstream media dog | Your answer seems to exclude completely West bank and Jordan (with significant Palestinian population.) | |
| Dec 11, 2023 at 19:13 | comment | added | C.F.G | Your start was good. :)- Which countries do you mean by If it hadn't been for the intervention of major world powers? | |
| Dec 11, 2023 at 18:52 | history | answered | Ted Wrigley | CC BY-SA 4.0 |