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Presence of DPRK troops in Russia and likely already in Ukraine has been considered by media and politicians as a serious development. E.g., this has been cited as a reason for Joe Biden authorizing Ukrainian long-range missile strikes deep into Russia, even though these risk dragging the US and Europe in an open war (possibly nuclear.)

However, it is far from obvious why about ten thousand troops, with no combat experience, present any change in military balance (according to Wikipedia, current Russian deployment in Ukraine is about 700,000 vs. about 800,000 Ukrainian troops - that is North Koreans amount to increase of Russian numbers by about 1.2%.)

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    Voted to close - The answers to this Q - How do North Korean troops in Ukraine threaten South Korea? - also answers your Q.
    – sfxedit
    Commented Nov 20 at 10:00
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    @sfxedit not clear how military balance on the Ukrainian battlefield is related to South Korea or potential NATO involvement (of which South Korea is not a member.) Commented Nov 20 at 10:45
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    Big deal for whom? You seem to be fishing for a specific answer given the comment you've written under one of the answers that it "doesn't answer your question". The question itself reads pretty vague to me as from whose perspective. And I don't recall the US themselves mentioning the North Koreans as a among the reasons why ATACMS can now be fired at Russia, allegedly. I don't recall there being an official communique on that from the US. Commented Nov 20 at 11:48
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    I find it insane that someone posts a dupe, someone figures out its a dupe, and then after that no less than six people go and answer it. Seriously...
    – Starship
    Commented Nov 20 at 17:33
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    @Starship note none of the people who voted to close also wrote an answer. I'm also voting to reopen, because this is not a duplicate; the linked question asks about South Korea while this one is more general.
    – Allure
    Commented Nov 20 at 23:04

6 Answers 6

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First, it shows an increased level of implication of North Korea in the conflict. This is noteworthy by itself. You did already read the answers to Why is sending troops different from sending military equipment? about why sending troops is considered different than sending weapons, so I will not repeat those.

Second, these things always have a potential to escalate. Both the USA in Vietnam and the Soviet Union in Afghanistan started sending troops for secondary duties; but that was only the prelude of a more massive intervention.

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  • This doesn't answer the question, which is about the military balance. This answer, and the one you quote focus on the political significance of such a move. Aside, the quoted answer focuses only on the official presence of troops. Not uncommon practices are sending troops as volunteers (hence no formal responsibility) or as military consultants (who supposedly do not participate in military action.) Commented Nov 20 at 10:43
  • What's also being lost is that the 700k numbers for Ukraine are all troops. Ukraine has considerably less on the frontline and they are exhausted. An influx of fresh troops on either side can be helpful, look no further than the fresh US troops at Belleau Wood in WW1. Not that I credit the North Korean troops with that great a potential, but we'll see. Commented Nov 20 at 17:52
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This is a big deal on the other side. Russia and North Korea have a mutual defense treaty, so an attack on one member is an attack on the entire alliance. Sending North Korean troops in response to a Ukrainian attack near Kursk has little value in itself, but it also means that Russia will do the same if anyone attacks North Korea, and that makes the ROK-US alliance nervous.

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    Good point especially as the DPRK has gotten more hostile towards the ROK recently.
    – haxor789
    Commented Nov 20 at 15:21
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This is what the situation looks like:

enter image description here

Where you put the "we are here" arrow is highly subjective. Some people for example think Russia's nuclear threats are all bluff, in which case they might place the arrow further on the left.

But: wherever you put that arrow, the fact that DPRK troops are fighting in Ukraine moves the arrow towards the right (don't forget the DPRK is also a nuclear-armed power). Maybe you don't think it moves the arrow by much. After all, it's only "ten thousand troops, with no combat experience, [not likely to] present any change in military balance". Still, no matter how you spin it, it moves the arrow to the right. And because Ukraine and its allies view it as escalatory, they are presumably going to respond. However they respond, they move the arrow to the right (and because whatever they do will be viewed as escalatory by Russia, they are presumably going to respond, etc.).

Maybe one day those of us still alive will commiserate amidst a nuclear winter and reminisce over how we got there, and we'll think about the DPRK's troops in Ukraine.

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    +1 in this context, how does Biden's authorization for long-range strikes into Russia improves the situation? Your do you think these things are unrelated? Commented Nov 20 at 14:02
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    @Wagthemainstreammediadog it's probably related. Don't have time to look for the source, but I remember reading that Biden authorized long-range strikes into Russia in part because of the DPRK troops in North Korea. Does it improve the situation? That's up to your perspective. Zelenskyy certainly thinks it does, certain other people don't (like Trump Jr).
    – Allure
    Commented Nov 20 at 14:05
  • @Wagthemainstreammediadog msn.com/en-us/news/world/… Here's a source I didn't have time to look for earlier. Biden's "major change in U.S. policy" was prompted by "Russia's surprise decision to bring North Korean troops into the fight," which the U.S. sees as a major escalation, The New York Times said.
    – Allure
    Commented Nov 20 at 23:23
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Zelensky claims that North Korea plans to send 100K troops. This may or may not be real. Reportedly from your wiki source there are only "300K+" Russian combatants in Ukraine. So, 100K extra troops would be bigger deal, i.e. like a 25% force boost, assuming the North Koreans won't stick to the Kursk region, which they may or may not. Even if we take Putin's June 14, 2024 claim of 700,000 Russians in the combat area, 100K is still a 14% boost. (Somewhat tangential, but AFAICT, Ukraine's intelligence officials have generally said that Putin overstates the number of Russian soldiers in Ukraine.)

FTWT, one Ukrainian 'expert' claims that the threat of being hit with ATACMS in assembly areas might cause Kim Jong Un to reconsider sending more troops to the front. I'd say that needs to be taken with the appropriate large measure of salt.

The closest thing to the US calling it a big deal I found is this:

In a press briefing Monday, US State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller said the involvement of North Korean troops in the war was “a major escalation by Russia, bringing in an Asian military to a conflict inside Europe.”

Clearly he isn't talking about numbers, but mostly symbolism thus far.

Russia is understandably more muted on this. But they did say they wanted 500K North Korean workers.

As for the connection with ATACMS strikes in Russia. I've not been able find anything truly official, but some of the press said that some "officials" have made the link, off the record. BTW, ATACMS also happens to not be the only escalation by the US recently. They've also approved sending anti-personnel mines to Ukraine now. At least for the latter a more clear reason was officially provided.

Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin [...] told reporters on Wednesday that the decision was motivated by Russia’s changing tactics on the frontlines.

“Because the Russians have been so unsuccessful in the way that they have been fighting, they’ve kind of changed their tactics a bit,” Austin told reporters in Laos.

“They don’t lead with their mechanized forces anymore. They lead with dismounted forces who are able to close and do things to kind of pave the way for mechanized forces,” he explained.

Austin said Ukraine’s military needs “things that can help slow down that effort.”

BTW, Russia now rather claims ATACMS are no big deal either because they say they shot down most of them. The US thus far seem not have confirmed ATACMS policy change on record (as opposed to off the record)

The Biden administration hasn't publicly confirmed the ATACMS policy change. State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller told journalists at a Monday briefing he would not confirm or deny approval for ATACMS use inside Russia, but said the U.S. response to Russian and North Korean military cooperation in the war "would be firm."

Likewise:

In a Monday morning briefing in Rio de Janeiro, U.S. Deputy National Security Adviser Jonathan Finer evaded questions from reporters about Biden's [ATACMS] authorization.

"I'm not confirming any decisions that have or have not been made about U.S. assistance when it comes to these operational questions," Finer said. "I will say, with regard to the comments that came out of Russia, the fire was lit by Russia's invasion of Ukraine."

And anyhow, Ukraine apparently received a rather limited supply--around 50 of them ATACMS.

I'll also note here that the US statement in May that coincided with allowing GMLRS strikes into Russia was pretty vague. Officially little was disclosed what Ukraine was allowed to do and what it still wasn't. Only by observing actions over time the limits were inferred by the press.

Also, this last bit is entirely my speculation, but with Trump slated to take office in a couple of months, Biden's team may have decided to call bluff on Putin's claim that he'd regard a strike with longer range US missiles by Ukraine as direct involvement of the US in the war. What's Putin going to do now? Hit some US targets? Formally declare war on the US? Neither of these actions are likely to sit well with Trump. There's a fair bit of expectation that Trump will lower US support for Ukraine. But if Russia were to escalate directly against the US now, all that might go out the window, even when/after Trump takes office. So, like with many other escalations before this one (Western tanks, HIMARS, HIMARS [meaning GMLRS] strikes into Russia etc.) we might see the usual pattern with Russia warning about WW3 before such a step is taken (and more or less vaguely threaten direct strikes on Western targets) and then downplaying the escalation by Western supply (or rules on use that come attached) after it happens.

Another angle is that reportedly the US relaxation of rules was also followed by the British. And since they've promised to stick with Ukraine even if Trump changes tack, that's also a way for Biden to push the boundaries beyond the end of his mandate. Once Storm Shadow strikes into Russia are 'normalized' now, it would be harder for anyone to call WW3 over them later. Anyhow, the British government likewise "refused to comment on the reports for operational reasons".

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  • Reportedly from your wiki source there are only "300K+" Russian combatants in Ukraine. - In my wiki source: In June 2024: 700,000 active personnel in the area[10] Commented Nov 20 at 14:53
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    @Wagthemainstreammediadog: if you follow the source, that's entirely based on Putin's claim from June 14, 2024. Commented Nov 20 at 15:02
  • Institute for the Study of War apparently thinks the claim credible (and more on par with the number of Ukrainians present.) But who is David Pitraeus compared to a Politics SE experts? Btw, has Russia run out of tanks yet? Commented Nov 20 at 17:35
  • What's Putin going to do now? Hit some US targets? They could escalate to that, later. As per RT, what they have initially promised to do is to increase military and political support to America's / western rivals or enemies. North Korea is just one of the public example of what that looks like. Imagine if Russia (and China) provide full support to Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions? There are many such ways Russia can undermine western interest if it starts to blatantly disregard them completely and apathetically (which it doesn't do right now).
    – sfxedit
    Commented Nov 20 at 20:18
  • @sfxedit: their bases in Syria are pretty much a goner if they arm Iran with nukes. Russia is already 'telling' Israel not to bomb so closely to them. Commented Nov 20 at 20:20
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I wish people thought more about the way warfare has changed over the last 80 years or so. Up until the mid-20th century warfare was a bit like chess or American football: a slow grind of pieces against each other to get progressively better positional advantage until an end is in sight. But now war is something different, and more primitive: there are no hard-and-fast rules; combat is preferentially conceived as overwhelming power delivered from a safe distance; victories are marked in economic and symbolic terms, not the martial terms of battle success and acquisition of position. Modern warfare is a bit like playing God and a bit like organized terrorism: an effort to smite your enemies with bolts out of the blue until they collapse in dismay, all done without ever revealing your face.

With that in mind, 10,000 DPRk troops is a symbolic victory meant to demoralize Ukraine and its allies:

  • It shows international support for Russia's campaign
  • It counters the attrition narrative that the West has been using against Russia
  • It signals that Ukrainian troops might face more than the old, war-weary, under-trained Russian regiments they've faced so far
  • It tells the Russian people that they are not shouldering the burden of this war alone

A mere 10,000 troops isn't going to affect the military situation much at all. But Putin is not thinking that much about the military details. Putin is seeking out symbolic victories, and as a symbol those troops are quite effective.

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  • I wish people thought more about the way warfare has changed over the last 80 years or so. - isn't that a bit condescending, and hence against the CoC? Anyhow, the Q. is not about why Putin needs DPRK troops, but why the west takes them so seriously, perhaps even to risk open NATO-Russia confrontation? When American soldiers start dying to Ukraine or a dummy warhead falls in a European capital, things might seem less like overwhelming power delivered from a safe distance. Commented Nov 20 at 17:43
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    As a Frenchman, I would not characterize May 10th - 23rd 1940 in WW2 as slow and grinding affair, no. And if anything this war looks more like WW1. Commented Nov 20 at 17:47
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    @Wagthemainstreammediadog: You're welcome to report it if you think it's condescending. I just see it as factual; people don't think enough about this. And it you don't see how the West would take a symbolic victory like this seriously, then you haven't understood the tenor of this answer. Either way, you'r not offering any tangible suggestions for imnprovement, so I don't know what to say to this. Commented Nov 20 at 18:43
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    @ItalianPhilosopher: Everything is relative. The blitzkrieg was intended to rapidly secure territory and disrupt organized opposition before it took shape. It was an effective innovation, but still part of the age-old strategy of securing positional advantage. Notice that when Russia tried the same tactic at the beginning of the Ukraine war it failed, because Russia didn't go in with the attitude of rapidly securing territory; it went in with the attitude of demoralizing opposition. Commented Nov 20 at 18:49
  • The front line around Kursk is about 100 km long, and the main problem for both sides is that their forces are very dispersed. Deployment of 10,000 highly motivated soldiers, even with basic training, would almost certainly result in the opponent being steam-rolled. Nothing like this is happening in reality and that makes me sure that the deployment is a blatant lie. Commented Nov 21 at 12:41
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I think the primary cause of Western liberal complaints is less because it radically alters the situation in Ukraine - although it obviously does not alter the situation there positively for liberals - but because it is a sign that the worldwide embargo on North Korea is breaking down, and they are coming in from the cold and aligning with what is now a powerful enemy of liberals.

You could see this liberal policy of embargo in effect when Trump was last president and agreed to unconditional talks with Kim, whilst liberals fulminated about the meeting at the time.

It is almost beyond living memory when North Korean troops last had actual combat experience, so the benefit to their armed forces and the wider regime will be immense. Putin is also providing other resources to NK in exchange for the participation of their troops.

In turn, this alters the stalemate between North Korea and the liberal-backed South Korea, the latter of which is itself occasionally involved in small Western wars (e.g. Iraq) but is facing a population collapse imminently and has a heavily-aged existing population.

The two sides, North and South, officially remain in a state of war, and practically speaking they are in a cold-war style ideological conflict.

The North has a unique ideology called "Juche" based around the Kim dictatorship, and although neither the Soviets/Russians, nor the Chinese, are reconciled to it, they are more ideologically tolerant toward it than Western liberals. The policy of NK's neighbours tends towards promoting its stability, whilst liberals promote its destruction and absorbtion by SK into a reunited, pro-liberal regime (similar to the fate of East Germany).

So it's very much in this wider context of sustained liberal conflict against the NK regime specifically, where a NK troop deployment to anywhere in the world (let alone Ukraine) is deemed an unwelcome development.

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    because it is a sign that the worldwide embargo on North Korea is breaking down - It is breaking down only because the Russo-Anglo-American relations have deteriorated. Most of the UN sanctions against North Korea only succeeded because Russia (and its ally China) didn't veto it in the UNSC, as the Russians made genuine attempt to cooperate with the west, before the political breakdown happened. Today, no more UN sanctions against North Korea would be possible because both Russia and China would veto it.
    – sfxedit
    Commented Nov 20 at 11:29
  • in order to foreclose Trump's own room for maneouver - perhaps you could add something regarding my other question: politics.stackexchange.com/q/89848/38304 Commented Nov 20 at 14:04

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